Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 5:18:53 GMT -8
So, after reading, re-reading, and reading the post again, trying not to choke on the thick stench of hypocrisy that was in the air about said post, and allowing you a chance to review and potentially revise your post, it is time to make a response. Lack of conduct, not communication. I would like to ask you to take in consideration every point we are trying to wave in front of your eyes, not just the ones you can patch a hafhazard comment on. Oh I assure you I have considered each and every single so called point you have tried making, and have come back with well thought out and supportable responses. I am not sure where you believe this haphazardness is coming from, but I suggest you read some of your own comments and review the haphazardness of them, before trying to claim that I am making haphazard comments. CUSTOMSA Vanish 2 is awesome, it is true, it is. I read the article. It comes in every size, and can be applied to make an armour, an E11 and a granade launcher plus spare ammo, med kit, calming teddy bear, pictures of loved ones and german hardcore porn collection look like empty space. Yes, it is exactly what it is made for. In a world where this technology exists, the customs officers would look for EXACTLY this kind of "ANNOMALY". It may have a little ounce of chance that ONE crate goes by on a 20 000 head civilian flight, sure, but not 500, nor 200-whatever that you later stated. (again, not caring if the number was present on a planet-thread far far away). It is not plausable in a world where war and terrorism has been a constant problem. Not in Star Wars, and guess what, not in ours either. A second point: please, when reading a WOOKIE article, dont just take the pros from it, but consider its cons. you are claiming you had 200 something Vanish 2-s? Here is a line taken strait from the article. "With installation costs in the millions of credits, the Vanish 2 was extremely expensive; " Millions. Meaning at least 2 million, but may be more. You are seriously telling me your character, a military person, would rather spend 400 million(minimum, but might even be around 5-600 M) on hardware that has a minimal chance of success (because of above point) instead of....... about 3-4 fully operating and shiny Imperial I-class Star Destroyers (and maybe even have money to mann and equip them for an full assault). Also, where would he have gotten cash like that? I know we dont have a fully working eco-system (haha, pun) but still, use your common sense. Military people live off the budgets they get from the civilian goverment. I dont really think you get a billion just like that to spend on a badly planned suecide attack. Let's start with this point, particularly the part where for starters the Vanish-2 is a "military grade sensor mask" that fooled military grade scanners into seeing "a single and uninterrupted section of space". Let's start be reviewing the definition of single: adjective, only one. Let's also review the definition of uninterrupted: adjective, without a break in continuity. So pray tell, where exactly is this empty space that you keep refering to that these weapons would be creating? This thing literally mimics the conditions around it in every scanable way to ensure there is no empty space revealing what is being hidden. I mean, who would design something that would make something appear as a giant missing section of space that was so obviously a trick that you would pick up on it? now, let's move on to the context in which I mentioned the Vanish 2, just to remind you, here is a quote from your post in the GR thread: to whit I replied with this: As far as Sensor Masking goes, I refer you to this wookiee article: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vanish_2_military_sensor_masking_systemNow, whilst what I have is only an extremely smaller version of that, the principle of what the sensor mask is doing is the same, the device is monitoring the sensor conditions around the weapons and re-emitting these contions to fool sensor scans into seeing an uninterrupted space. Now, there is a couple points to mention here, the first being that Vanish-2's were used exclusively on ships of any size, hence why their costs were in the millions, the second being that Vanish-2's were never used on anything smaller than a ship. The third point I would like to point out, is that I never explicitly stated that I was using Vanish-2's, I was merely using the Vanish-2 to help describe just how a sensor masking system worked, since you were not sure what they did, and the Vanish-2's article states that "The Vanish 2 worked like most sensor masks". What I did state, however, was that I was using something that was a lot smaller that worked on the same principles, since the Vanish-2 isn't the only kind of sensor masking system in existence. Therefore what I am using would still be military grade, but would be cheaper in price due to the smaller size. Which begs the question as to how it is that a civilian scanner system, would pick up a military grade piece of hardware that fools military grade scanners, based on a non-existent annomaly? ALSO: there is 30,000 people per transport, that is the population of Winsford, England per transport, with 6 of these arriving at once, which equates to 180,000 which is roughly the entire population of Knoxville, Tennessee arriving at the same time, all with their own cargo. And you think 225 crates (of different shape, size, and colour) would stand out, in all thousand or so crates passing through at the SAME EXACT time? especially considering my points about the masking? (note these statistics are as of 2005) TRACKING SAID CRATESAs I said in my post, I am neither a customs officer, nor a chemist. I dont know what customs officer use, but I did have an aquantant that informed me of substances used in quasi the same way. A suspicious packadge is marked, and then a helicopter or other vehicle is following the target. They see the target with special sensors like goggles or special camera... and follow it to the destination it is going to. THen, bag the perps, question them. How can this be done with a highly advanced SCI FI spaceship? Filter the sensors to only show the substance the targets were marked with. THen, apply the city map in a virtual enviroment in the same scale as the targets are shown. It was an idea, Maybe someone can give a valid argument against it, I would accept it if it IS valid. Why I did this, was because you blatantly bypassed any kind of customs not caring for the defenders to answer, and moved strait to the vital places of the planet with explosives to blow half the city up. See, this is a haphazard comment if I ever saw one. But let's go into the details of this, once more to point out why this would not work out the way you think it would. Coruscant has a permanent residency of 1 Trillion People (with the estimated actual count to be three times this many), with a few hundred thousand or so non-permamnent residents, and is a Ecumenopolis (a city made of the whole world) with 5,127 city levels built on it, with more traffic, tunnels and buildings than I care to count. Now taking these into account, there would undoubtedly be thousands of radiation sources that would be similar to the one you are using to track the crates, not to mention there is over 5,000 levels to the planet, meaning there is literally thousands of levels of buildings between your ship and the crates at different points in time. It's why Star Wars invented tracking devices, to avoid such untrust worthy methods such as radiation marking. Also, please explain to me how public access area's such as streets, entrance walkways, public lobbies, entrance to loading docks, and abandoned/empty factories in the works are vital places? also, explosives wise, there was hardly enough to blow up half the city, but there was enough to cause distractions however... SIZE OF ATTACK AND POLITICSWhen I was first against this attack in this very thread, you told me that it would be a small scale thing, that could easily be disreguarded from Imperials, and would not... you know.... look like a god damned declaration of war. I dont remember the exact words, but this was what stayed in my memmory as a summary. What did you do next? Wrote 1500 full grown Imp soldiers marching past customs, and then attacking the goverment, the infrastructure (works) and any kind of reinforcements that could come to aid (the army bases) Sure, the idea is nice, but it is a declaration of war. Why is this a shit idea Politically? People get captured. Thats just how war is. People break. People speak. Thats just how war is. Soldiers also tatoo their battalions on their skin. Those doesnt even have to break, just... "LOOK! An IMP!". Then a full fledged Fleet Assault? Where is the "Little attack to make them pay"? So, attacking without the order of the emperror, sure... if it was 20 guys and a sling, he could just say "I have no idea who these poeple are.... I had nothing to do with it". A full fleet and a ground assault force? It either looks like the Emperor ordered a war on the republic (wich I would have remembered) or he has total lack of controll over his forces, and is a clown with red nose and inflatable baloon animals. Not to mention makes the entire Empire look like dumbasses. IC and maybe even OOC. considering the Empire and Republic can muster armies that consist of hundreds of thousands of troops, 1500 people is small compared to what could have been used. attacking the government? atm it's more like marching on them. attacking the infrastructure? uhm no, not unless things that are not used any more and have one explosive blown up near them to cause a distraction is considered a piece of infrastructure. attacking reinforcements? well I'd like to hope Coruscant's defence army was not housed in only three military compounds, since that is a fuck load of people to fit into only three places, in fact I'd imagine there would be 2-3 more such bases with more men. It just so happened that I needed the bases to hijack some LAAT's to get up to the three hypervelocity guns located on the Stenax Moons in orbit to help create further distractions whilst leading the attack on the government. Uhm, you do realize these are Storm Commando's that I'm using, the guys who's day job was to go around invoking an unholy fear of god into people that thought about leaving the Empire or causing dissent, right? These guys are Imperial Commando's, tattoo's with Imperial markings would be a bad idea for any operation designed at keeping people in the Empire, especially if the plan is to make the attack look like another force. Also, need I remind you, JvS and Star Wars canon have seen a fuck load of different Empire's, I mean you got the Galactic Empire itself, the Fel Dynasty, the Imperial Remnant, and in JvS, wearing scouttrooper-esque armour does not a Galactic Imperial make... There is also a thing called warlords, whom owe allegiance to no one (Ander Tagira anyone) that can also make use of the same armour and weapons and ships, and yet they are not Imperial. Hell, the announcement in orbit basically sets them apart from the Empire. But I guess we just make leaps in logic now and assume you are either with the Republic if you use clone troopers, or the empire if you use stromtrooper-esque soldiers right? OOC CONDUCT, GENERAL RP RULES, AMATURISMWell, how does an attack start on JvS nowdays kids? First, you inform the attacked party about your intention OOC (OOC CONDUCT), or at least the fact that you have posted your arrival post to the planets threads if its a suprise attack (both IC and OOC), so the good defending people can react something to it, even if it is "The Civilian Pessanger Freighter is let through orbit". Common god damned courtesy. Then? What if I want to Infiltrate? Well, informing the attacked party that you have infiltrated, and actually have a gun at every senators head, a bomb at every holding wall is not really how this works. You Have to detail how you are getting through each defence that is set up exactly against infiltrations. Like..... erm....... what was that C word again.... CUSTOMS! Just because you think you have a working idea that doesnt justify you to doublepost, or ignore the existence of the opposition, then crawl up from the toilet just as they are about to sit down. Why this entire RP is a headache right now, is the fact that you Zahn have bypassed every security point that would have been there, by common sense, and did never give a chance to the defenders to react. If I dont accidentally see that you posted and answer it, you would have set bombs in the WOrks and the 500 republica. Amaturism? Dont write the defenders defences yourself. Thats just disgusting, and discouriging, and low. Getting past Customs? That was EXACTLY that. Getting to vital parts of the Works, 500 Republica? EXACTLY THAT. If this is your style of writing, then its name unfortunatley is AMATURISM. Also the argument " You are not posting as fast as I do, so I can do more" is fucking bullshit, and you know it. Its childish, and we as a site has grown out of this. If you want to write a story where Zahn attacks and destroys the republic on Coruscant, go to the JotW. You inform the attacked party about your intention did you say, well, let me stop you right there: I've never really... done this before, so I'll just jump to the point, I've finally figured out what my plan is, and figured it was time to float this idea your way, so you guy's had some... warning.... of what was about to head your way. Unless you've read the Empire thread, or have an alt within the Empire, then I'm here to tell you that I plan on enacting some retaliatory vengeance against the Republic for the IC announcement of them being behind the Mando attack on Kuat. The definite targets will be Crom'nen, Darma, and Cihlbar, for their roles with regards to the attack. That said, I will be doing my damned best not only to ensure success, but also to cover up any ties to the Empire (no imperial markings or orders, in fact I won't even be using any real names, with a likelihood of posing as like GALSAF, or the now defunct Imperial Remnant, or some other organization that could be called Terrorists. I might even just say they are the Imperial Storm), the IC claim will be to avenge those that needlessly died at Kuat and punish the Republic for it's crimes. Feel free to PM me any questions you have, or I guess place them here. In case you're wondering, my attack has nothing to do with Atia's plan. you were saying? I will perhaps grant you that writing my way past customs was a bit of a shitty move, but I still await explanation of these so called "vital parts of the Works, 500 Republica" that you keep refering to... Also I do believe I am currently awaiting responses from the defender at the moment... On another note, if you are also refering to mentioning the vehicles in the military compounds, perhaps you should have a read of Corsucant's planetary guide to see that I am merely refering to your own defences and not making them up or anything. Also, I am not sure how the Republic would miss me posting in any of their own threads, so i doubt I would have blown shit up before anyone responded. SIZE OF ATTACK, AGAINDetail. One cant write 1500 soldiers infiltrating all through Coruscant in Detail, and its extremely hard to write them doing five different missions. It gets shitty, and it didnt work. There was no detail on how many exactly went to each location, how they were formed, in how many vehicles, etc etc. It would have been a clusterfuck, and it is now. I am sure it can be done, but it wasnt now. Uhm, actually, One person can write 1500 soldiers infiltrating Coruscant, and I do believe I am doing it right now. Also, there was plenty of detail, unless your math sucks, then you would notice the 1500 commando's were divided into 5 battalions (1500 / 5 = 300), a fact which is mentioned on my profile (but I guess reading profiles is overrated, right?). These are further divided into roguhly 5-10 people per transport/taxi. FLEET BATTLEI had written a fleet battle tuttorial on the old site, I dont remember if I reposted it here, but I god damned hope I did, because you need to read it. What Irrelevant wrote is ..... rellevant (lol, pun again!). But, seeing from your response, just nitpicking. What you dont understand is that this is not about STYLE, but how this shit works in Forum Based RP. You do something (coming out of hyperspace) you let the other party react to this. The other party usually detects this (or not, but still posts about it) sends allarm blarring, charges weapons and aims in, if weapons were charged, they shoot, but this is very rarley a case. Next post you charge your weapons, shields, release fighters, activate special equipment (like sensor jamming, that WILL effect your enemy AND YOU). The defender answers with his post, either asking what the fuck you are doing, or shoots at once. Only then can you start shooting like a damned crazed person, and have your fighters actually do anything (because guess what, disembarking from a ship takes time too) and the battle can start. This is not style, this is COMMON FORUM BASED RP RULES for fleet battles. You have a chance to reply, to be fair, i'm not really hiding anything, so detection isn't that much of an issue... I mean you have a perfectly good chance to dodge most of the incoming fire and make your reply... PREPARATION. IC and OOCYou, as a writer, can read what defences and fleets are in Coruscant orbit. But your Character cant. He could have ran into fifteen fleets, since its the REPUBLIC CAPITOL. So, what do you do? You either recon it, or ask the local Intelligence (spying, for those that dont know) agency. Go to Bateman. He would tell you what he knows, or ask you to wait for a couple of days before he gets his agents on the task, and gives you a report. If you RECON, make sure the Defending writers know your intentions, and will answer your posts when you well write them. Tell them OOC you are coming. INFILTRATIONYou know at least something of what will wait for you? Awesome. Again, try to find a way to get weapons past the customs. Either get there yourself with your forces, and try to buy them on the black market (dangerous, because of police forces, and not knowing the local underground, because how would you?) or again, ask the local Spy. Ask Bateman. he has agents there, and could surely get them (if I ever get to write those posts instead of arguing OOC) to either buy the weapons for you, or get your people in contact with those that sell it. So....... you maybe just get various small arms, and just a couple granades and some home made explosives, but at least you can just stroll through customs with your flower painted undies and a smile on your face. Operating behind enemy lines usually dont get you the top-end equipment. Where to get ID papers that dont get you arrested is an other story (one I am actually working on). Also, not 1500 people. 10, at max 20. Its infiltration, not ethnic migration. PICK A TARGET. ONE.It will be more detailed, and a better attack. Recon it, or have Batemans agents wait for you with pictures and shit after reconing it. That is why they are there, to help you military fools get yourselves killed more effectively for the cause. Recon it, and then Plan the attack again. let the Defenders write their defences, and NOT YOU WRITE THEM FOR YOURSELF. With knowing what you are up against IC, NOT JUST OOC, you will get better results. At leas that is what Zun Tsu would say, if he ever had Internet. PLAN Plan. EXECUTE ATTACK Execute the Attack. It may fail. It may succeed. Dont bitch if it fails. I have had attacks (just like this) Fail and succeed. Had fun with both. Your current one is failing both IC and OOC. I am still open for a restart, and I am still enthusiastic about it. I can help with Bateman and his agents on your side, and we ask someone else write the Republic side of things. Sounds coolio? Yeah, I could have run into fifteen fleets, and it still wouldn't have been a problem, there is a reason I disabled the reactor safety protocols on the Victory II's, in case that did happen, the idea is to cause as much damage and be as much of a distraction as possible. I must say, I find your incessant need to act like the be-all-end-all of involvement for this attack and anything between the Republic and Empire to be quite bothersome, and borderline, if I may be so bold as to use your own comment, egotripping as far as how important you consider yourself. Let me make this very clear, bateman and his fancy spy network, have your little charity ball to keep up your ideal dream of the cold war going. Meanwhile, as I made very clear when I announced this, I have no need for such tom-foolery and intend to finally deal out some retribution for people's actions IC, so that they stop acting like knock-off palpatine's (which honestly is an insult to palp's) and actually consider their actions (cause ya know, not everyone was a coniving, scheming con of a bitch just out for more power for themselves). If you want to run your spy network for the Empire, that's cool, and I wont try to tell you how to run it or try get involved with it. So I'd appreciate it if you didn't try forcing yourself into my side of this attack. As for the success or failure of this attack, It is actually going well, I've rolled with pretty much most of your moves, meanwhilst, you've wasted time you could be using to beat me IC, complaining about things OOC (some of which were because you failed to properly read my posts). As I've stated before, and as Xeo/Panno has expressed, I'm more willing to just roll with things as they are, then restart it all now.
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Krzesimir Viggo
The First Order
Posts: 360
Affiliation: First Order
Traffic Light: Blue
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Post by Krzesimir Viggo on Oct 27, 2014 13:21:31 GMT -8
On the subject of radiation: There are multiple kinds of radiation, some of which are very easy to track, but hazardous in large doses, others that have little to no effect on organic life, like the mind used by MDs today to highlight certain organs to see if an operation is required and/or what kind of operation is required, as well as stuff that's actually just light, but considered to be radiation do to the damaging effects it can have in high concentrations. The former would be highly regulated, and NOT widely found all over Coruscant because of it's massive population. So it would be very easy to use and follow, unless you decided to head to the lower levels, which would draw it's own attention to your men.
On reading Profiles: All information found on a profile is strictly OoC info. If he'd used information found only on your profile to write a response to your forces, he would then be guilty of meta-gaming. I find your suggestion that he should meta-game to help things flow, annoying to be honest. In times past, such suggestions have come from writers to lazy to put detail into their posts, I hope that is not the case here. (the fact that this discussion is still going is evidence that you are not a lazy writer)
On detail: I believe Sel is requesting you write through each group's infiltration of planetary security. Which may sound tedious, but it helps to avoid the appearance of trying to skirt local defenses. I tend use a format that looks something like "X men slip through completely unnoticed, Y men are pulled aside but nothing substantial is found so they are allowed through, Z men are detained, but most are cases of mistaken identity, and all but A are released after B days/weeks of being held in custody. The remainder get incarcerated for the duration of the operation." it's not perfect and won't always include all the necessary details, but it helps you think about all the outcomes, which are all happening simultaneously to various members of the group. Unfortunately you can't make one "die roll" and apply it to your entire force, which is what your post looks like. It looks like you considered all the possible outcomes and then decided that all of your men got the same result. Which is often read as sloppy writing. In this instance, you are expected to write the number of transports arriving at each location and just how many men are in those transports. Preferably listing or grouping the vehicles by number of occupants, so that the defender has a clear idea of what's arrayed against him/her.
On locations: The Works are entirely irrelevant, as they are no longer in use, all manufacturing having been moved off world. The senate plaza would be a very high security environment due to previous terrorist attacks against the senate in the not so distant past, though an obvious target. There was another target, I know, but I need to go write papers for school and stop procrastinating here. So I apologize for the half finished response. I hope it was done clearly and as neutrally as possible.
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