Opinions needed for site improvement.
Jul 30, 2014 14:08:37 GMT -8
Ander Tagira, Galaar Vhett, and 1 more like this
Post by Adrien Draykon on Jul 30, 2014 14:08:37 GMT -8
Well I'm late to the party but I suppose I should weigh in since. I also know that some of what I'm about to say has already been covered, I'm saying it anyway because I thought it...and because I started writing this a pretty much right after the initial post here and haven't had time to finish and I don't feel like going through and deleting what's no longer relevant/keeping what is. Yeah I'm lazy like that.
First, the misconception that the council are some exclusive/elitist group of friends is more than a little ridiculous. It is true that we have, in the past, asked people to join or encouraged them to fill out an application this is not because we were friends with them or they were popular, but simply because we felt as though they would make good councilors. Do we become friends after working together for so long? Yes, but not always, and we still have disagreements. Prime example, I had plenty of people on the council that I was closer to than Jud when I suggested him to replace me as HC, he was simply the best for the job at the time and I feel that he did a good job in his time, if there had been someone better I would have chosen them plain and simple. That may sound like I made the decision on my own on who would replace me, let me put those thought to rest, I didn't, I spoke with Aer, we came to a decision and put Jud's name forward to the Whills for a final decision, it's the process that has been done for all of us who have been privileged enough to be called High Councilor. Also, I'll admit that getting on the council isn't always as simple as filling out an application, it depends on how many applications are turned in (supply) and how many councilors we need (demand). If we need three councilors and we have six applications then three are out of luck, it's also not a first come first serve basis (at least in my experience, I've been gone a while now), it's on the applicant's shoulders to earn their position and from there the rest of the council votes. Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes we get it right, every "class" has a bad egg so to speak, sometimes we get a gem. But we make a decision based on what we know at the time. To say that we simply parade our friends into the council is not only false, it's insulting. Please stop with the council bashing and/or Whill bashing, it is ineffective, instead offer solutions. Now there are those of us who are set in their thinking and this will fall on deaf ears, but I feel like it needs to be said.
Now that that is out of the way I've noticed that in this thread there has been a lot of defensive posts, possibly offensive posts, and a few constructive remarks. People with very clear cut sides, I'm going to try to remain as unbiased as possible.
I agree with Gabe in that the council needs transparency, but guess what, that has been attempted, in fact we were making a lot of progress with it before the old site crashed. I would give you examples but unfortunately it seems as though the old site has crashed again. There was a monthly newsletter for the general public to get an idea of what we were working on. It only posted one month because as I said, the site crashed, but perhaps that needs to be revived. But as Era said, nothing of note is going on at the moment, so right now what's the point? Maybe for now simply requesting an update would suffice? Maybe just ask the councilors "Hey whatcha workin' on?" would get you some of the answers you're looking for. Some things might not be ready to share some thing will be, but at least you'll have an idea. Don't think it'll work? Did you try?
Yes we've lost people, yes we need more people here, this isn't a secret, but simply stating that we need more people doesn't bring more people. Gabe is the first person I've seen that's taken steps to solve that problem by getting out there (of course I really haven't been around much lately so I could have missed something). I'm not going to talk much about this because there's really only one way to get more people here and sitting here talking about it won't do it.
On the point of new people, Twitter, facebook, RPG Directory, and other media outlets are great, but I'd like to see the welcome message come back, and I'm being completely honest here. I don't know about the rest of you but actually felt welcomed when I got that message regardless of whether it was automatic or not. I mean sure, I was a member on 1.0 but I stuck to my small writing group on Contruum and didn't venture far from there, hell I don't think I left the Expansion Region, so having that message that said, 'Hi, welcome to JvS. You can find this here, and here, and here. And so on.' really made me feel like part of a community. Also I agree with Gabe on the point of bringing back the New Player's Guild.
I had a few suggestions a while back in a private thread on ways I think the site can be improved, I'm going to copy it here directly because I don't feel like rewriting it, I will however trim the fat so to speak. And while I had initially posted this on a private thread they are thoughts that I would and have shared publicly in the past.
Drop the "Golden Age" rule, I've always been against it, all of my characters have a set timeline and they're all set a couple hundred years after the last event in canon because I like structure, sure that means I have a ship that is ooooooooooooollllllld but she's kept up real nice
. But in all seriousness, when new players come here it's probably a little strange for them to see Alderaan on the boards as more than just an asteroid field, it was for me when I started. My first thought was "hey that planet got blown up, why is it here?" and then I heard about the "Golden Age" and rolled my eyes a bit. Am I the only one? Anyway, I think it should be thrown out and we should pick up later on in the canon TL. Maybe don't destroy Alderaan, instead do as Aer suggested and change the name to New Alderaan.
There are too many rules! Throw them out! Honestly the sheer number of rules and regulations in the past were mind boggling, it's one think I disliked about the council. There was always a new regulation here or there and one coming into question or needed reexamined and to me many of them were unnecessary. I think that JvS as a community has matured enough to cut a vast majority of these rules out, I think that they should be restricted to businesses, behavior, and maybe battles so that when there is a claim brought up we have reference to make a ruling. But a majority of the banned items and limitations should be lifted completely, for example, and I hate to bring up topics long since dead, I never understood why Taozin amulets were banned, they literally do nothing but hide the wearer from force users. Why not let people use things like that but require RP to obtain it, and I'm not talking about one post where a guy looks down and there's one lying on the ground, but a well thought out story where they went on a search for it or defeated an enemy and took it. And I'm not just talking about those amulets, I mean any item that's banned. Let a Sith have a Talisman. Why? Because they're bad guys and bad guys with greater ability make for more compelling and challenging stories and RPs (since we're differentiating for some reason). And here's a great benefit to that, it would get everyone involved if the item was powerful enough. The Jedi have a council designed to find and destroy sith artifacts, just for a second imagine that their missions success or failures could have wide spread and lasting effects. The same goes for fleets and even superweapons, I say if you have the resources, the time, the people, and the credits then what is stopping you from building yourself that Death Star? Other than an OOC rule of course, which if we're being honest is essentially using OOC knowledge IC, there isn't a damned thing. And guess what, something like that would also bolster RP.
I also propose we allow the landscape of JvS to be changed, perhaps not irrevocably, but I think we should allow things like planetary bombardments, destruction, plague, or all manner of evil deeds it adds a sense of excitement to the site, and again I feel like it would bolster RP. Why? Because it would get people to work together to take down the threat and as many people have complained about in the past that there we have taken the 'war' out of Star Wars we would do the opposite and even up the ante.
I'll probably get a lot of backlash for this comment but I don't think players should own canon businesses, I never have. They want a business they should create it and then simply assume that those other businesses are there. What will this do to help? It's simple, canon businesses have their canon products to sell, they have their name stamped on the side of every ship, gun, and gadget, they exist with their own canon CEOs, and in my mind they should be background features. If people have their own business they can create their own products, they can create their own patents, they can sell their own merchandise, they can have a canon company do the fabrication and whatnot if they want, but they would run their business with complete control. What would this do? It would bring life into business and science/technology RP, and that is something that's been gone for a very long time. It's not just a feature that's grinding the wheels of the war machine, it could literally be the war machine, but why limit it to products of war? There are so many things that you could do with a business you create that I feel you just can't with a canon business, at least can't do and keep that business true to it's origins. It's been brought to my attention that rules have been passed restricting the ownership of canon businesses, I just think it bears repeating of why I think this is a good idea. However the point about non-canon businesses still stands.
As far as the council is concerned, I won't lie, part of me feels like you need to break the council back into two entities, on one hand you have the RP Councilors that guide and help with roleplay, and on the other you have Science and Tech councilors that help with and approve/deny patents. And both would have clear economic responsibilities. I think it would help with activity on the site and take a lot of the pressure of legislation off of everyone's shoulders. Hell if that were the case I'd come back to the council in the heartbeat because I love creating storylines. But the central goal would be to take away all of the outdated regulations and let your councilors focus on players, creativity, and RP. It's what, in my mind, the council is there to do.
Now I know that not everyone will agree with this but I think we should rework some of the troop allowances to match the new fleet allowances. I think they should be smaller, realistically not everyone can afford a personal army, but I think a small militia would be more doable. It might even make ground battles something more personalized and interesting, especially if these become more developed characters. Example
Current:
Updated:
It reduces the number of troops from 55570 with 1410 to a much more manageable 415 with 86 vehicles. I think it would give ground battles a much more intimate feel, allow you to personalize troops more effectively, and make ground battles much less of a headache and perhaps even bolster them. I would expand further on this but I need to get ready for work. Also this may not have a response to everything talked about, I typically like to do that, but I've missed a few posts over the last couple days. I will however read up on posts I've missed and comment on them in the next day or two if I feel the need.
First, the misconception that the council are some exclusive/elitist group of friends is more than a little ridiculous. It is true that we have, in the past, asked people to join or encouraged them to fill out an application this is not because we were friends with them or they were popular, but simply because we felt as though they would make good councilors. Do we become friends after working together for so long? Yes, but not always, and we still have disagreements. Prime example, I had plenty of people on the council that I was closer to than Jud when I suggested him to replace me as HC, he was simply the best for the job at the time and I feel that he did a good job in his time, if there had been someone better I would have chosen them plain and simple. That may sound like I made the decision on my own on who would replace me, let me put those thought to rest, I didn't, I spoke with Aer, we came to a decision and put Jud's name forward to the Whills for a final decision, it's the process that has been done for all of us who have been privileged enough to be called High Councilor. Also, I'll admit that getting on the council isn't always as simple as filling out an application, it depends on how many applications are turned in (supply) and how many councilors we need (demand). If we need three councilors and we have six applications then three are out of luck, it's also not a first come first serve basis (at least in my experience, I've been gone a while now), it's on the applicant's shoulders to earn their position and from there the rest of the council votes. Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes we get it right, every "class" has a bad egg so to speak, sometimes we get a gem. But we make a decision based on what we know at the time. To say that we simply parade our friends into the council is not only false, it's insulting. Please stop with the council bashing and/or Whill bashing, it is ineffective, instead offer solutions. Now there are those of us who are set in their thinking and this will fall on deaf ears, but I feel like it needs to be said.
Now that that is out of the way I've noticed that in this thread there has been a lot of defensive posts, possibly offensive posts, and a few constructive remarks. People with very clear cut sides, I'm going to try to remain as unbiased as possible.
I agree with Gabe in that the council needs transparency, but guess what, that has been attempted, in fact we were making a lot of progress with it before the old site crashed. I would give you examples but unfortunately it seems as though the old site has crashed again. There was a monthly newsletter for the general public to get an idea of what we were working on. It only posted one month because as I said, the site crashed, but perhaps that needs to be revived. But as Era said, nothing of note is going on at the moment, so right now what's the point? Maybe for now simply requesting an update would suffice? Maybe just ask the councilors "Hey whatcha workin' on?" would get you some of the answers you're looking for. Some things might not be ready to share some thing will be, but at least you'll have an idea. Don't think it'll work? Did you try?
Yes we've lost people, yes we need more people here, this isn't a secret, but simply stating that we need more people doesn't bring more people. Gabe is the first person I've seen that's taken steps to solve that problem by getting out there (of course I really haven't been around much lately so I could have missed something). I'm not going to talk much about this because there's really only one way to get more people here and sitting here talking about it won't do it.
On the point of new people, Twitter, facebook, RPG Directory, and other media outlets are great, but I'd like to see the welcome message come back, and I'm being completely honest here. I don't know about the rest of you but actually felt welcomed when I got that message regardless of whether it was automatic or not. I mean sure, I was a member on 1.0 but I stuck to my small writing group on Contruum and didn't venture far from there, hell I don't think I left the Expansion Region, so having that message that said, 'Hi, welcome to JvS. You can find this here, and here, and here. And so on.' really made me feel like part of a community. Also I agree with Gabe on the point of bringing back the New Player's Guild.
I had a few suggestions a while back in a private thread on ways I think the site can be improved, I'm going to copy it here directly because I don't feel like rewriting it, I will however trim the fat so to speak. And while I had initially posted this on a private thread they are thoughts that I would and have shared publicly in the past.
Drop the "Golden Age" rule, I've always been against it, all of my characters have a set timeline and they're all set a couple hundred years after the last event in canon because I like structure, sure that means I have a ship that is ooooooooooooollllllld but she's kept up real nice
. But in all seriousness, when new players come here it's probably a little strange for them to see Alderaan on the boards as more than just an asteroid field, it was for me when I started. My first thought was "hey that planet got blown up, why is it here?" and then I heard about the "Golden Age" and rolled my eyes a bit. Am I the only one? Anyway, I think it should be thrown out and we should pick up later on in the canon TL. Maybe don't destroy Alderaan, instead do as Aer suggested and change the name to New Alderaan.There are too many rules! Throw them out! Honestly the sheer number of rules and regulations in the past were mind boggling, it's one think I disliked about the council. There was always a new regulation here or there and one coming into question or needed reexamined and to me many of them were unnecessary. I think that JvS as a community has matured enough to cut a vast majority of these rules out, I think that they should be restricted to businesses, behavior, and maybe battles so that when there is a claim brought up we have reference to make a ruling. But a majority of the banned items and limitations should be lifted completely, for example, and I hate to bring up topics long since dead, I never understood why Taozin amulets were banned, they literally do nothing but hide the wearer from force users. Why not let people use things like that but require RP to obtain it, and I'm not talking about one post where a guy looks down and there's one lying on the ground, but a well thought out story where they went on a search for it or defeated an enemy and took it. And I'm not just talking about those amulets, I mean any item that's banned. Let a Sith have a Talisman. Why? Because they're bad guys and bad guys with greater ability make for more compelling and challenging stories and RPs (since we're differentiating for some reason). And here's a great benefit to that, it would get everyone involved if the item was powerful enough. The Jedi have a council designed to find and destroy sith artifacts, just for a second imagine that their missions success or failures could have wide spread and lasting effects. The same goes for fleets and even superweapons, I say if you have the resources, the time, the people, and the credits then what is stopping you from building yourself that Death Star? Other than an OOC rule of course, which if we're being honest is essentially using OOC knowledge IC, there isn't a damned thing. And guess what, something like that would also bolster RP.
I also propose we allow the landscape of JvS to be changed, perhaps not irrevocably, but I think we should allow things like planetary bombardments, destruction, plague, or all manner of evil deeds it adds a sense of excitement to the site, and again I feel like it would bolster RP. Why? Because it would get people to work together to take down the threat and as many people have complained about in the past that there we have taken the 'war' out of Star Wars we would do the opposite and even up the ante.
I'll probably get a lot of backlash for this comment but I don't think players should own canon businesses, I never have. They want a business they should create it and then simply assume that those other businesses are there. What will this do to help? It's simple, canon businesses have their canon products to sell, they have their name stamped on the side of every ship, gun, and gadget, they exist with their own canon CEOs, and in my mind they should be background features. If people have their own business they can create their own products, they can create their own patents, they can sell their own merchandise, they can have a canon company do the fabrication and whatnot if they want, but they would run their business with complete control. What would this do? It would bring life into business and science/technology RP, and that is something that's been gone for a very long time. It's not just a feature that's grinding the wheels of the war machine, it could literally be the war machine, but why limit it to products of war? There are so many things that you could do with a business you create that I feel you just can't with a canon business, at least can't do and keep that business true to it's origins. It's been brought to my attention that rules have been passed restricting the ownership of canon businesses, I just think it bears repeating of why I think this is a good idea. However the point about non-canon businesses still stands.
As far as the council is concerned, I won't lie, part of me feels like you need to break the council back into two entities, on one hand you have the RP Councilors that guide and help with roleplay, and on the other you have Science and Tech councilors that help with and approve/deny patents. And both would have clear economic responsibilities. I think it would help with activity on the site and take a lot of the pressure of legislation off of everyone's shoulders. Hell if that were the case I'd come back to the council in the heartbeat because I love creating storylines. But the central goal would be to take away all of the outdated regulations and let your councilors focus on players, creativity, and RP. It's what, in my mind, the council is there to do.
Now I know that not everyone will agree with this but I think we should rework some of the troop allowances to match the new fleet allowances. I think they should be smaller, realistically not everyone can afford a personal army, but I think a small militia would be more doable. It might even make ground battles something more personalized and interesting, especially if these become more developed characters. Example
Current:
10 - Supreme class vehicles-150m+
300 - Heavy class vehicles-15m+
350 - Medium class vehicles-10-15m
750 - Light class veheicles-0-10m
35 NPC Generals
5 up to and including master-equivalent(less powerful than PC).
30 Force Sensitive to Padawan level.
500 - Commando Troops
Commando Troops have no capability of using the Force
Commando Troops are highly specialized troops, and may possess advanced knowledge of skills like espionage, explosives and slicing. These are just examples. Commandos are likely to have superior equipment to other troops.
5000 - Elite Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Elite Troops are more highly trained than Standard Troops.
50000 - Standard Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Standard Troops are the core of any army, be they Stormtroopers, Battle Droids, or standard Wookiee Infantry.
300 - Heavy class vehicles-15m+
350 - Medium class vehicles-10-15m
750 - Light class veheicles-0-10m
35 NPC Generals
5 up to and including master-equivalent(less powerful than PC).
30 Force Sensitive to Padawan level.
500 - Commando Troops
Commando Troops have no capability of using the Force
Commando Troops are highly specialized troops, and may possess advanced knowledge of skills like espionage, explosives and slicing. These are just examples. Commandos are likely to have superior equipment to other troops.
5000 - Elite Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Elite Troops are more highly trained than Standard Troops.
50000 - Standard Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Standard Troops are the core of any army, be they Stormtroopers, Battle Droids, or standard Wookiee Infantry.
Updated:
1 - Supreme class vehicles-150m+
10 - Heavy class vehicles-15m+
30 - Medium class vehicles-10-15m
45 - Light class veheicles-0-10m
5 up to and including master-equivalent(less powerful than PC).
10 Force Sensitive to Padawan level.
50 - Commando Troops
Commando Troops have no capability of using the Force
Commando Troops are highly specialized troops, and may possess advanced knowledge of skills like espionage, explosives and slicing. These are just examples. Commandos are likely to have superior equipment to other troops.
100 - Elite Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Elite Troops are more highly trained than Standard Troops.
250 - Standard Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Standard Troops are the core of any army, be they Stormtroopers, Battle Droids, or standard Wookiee Infantry.
10 - Heavy class vehicles-15m+
30 - Medium class vehicles-10-15m
45 - Light class veheicles-0-10m
5 up to and including master-equivalent(less powerful than PC).
10 Force Sensitive to Padawan level.
50 - Commando Troops
Commando Troops have no capability of using the Force
Commando Troops are highly specialized troops, and may possess advanced knowledge of skills like espionage, explosives and slicing. These are just examples. Commandos are likely to have superior equipment to other troops.
100 - Elite Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Elite Troops are more highly trained than Standard Troops.
250 - Standard Troops
Have no capability of using the force.
Standard Troops are the core of any army, be they Stormtroopers, Battle Droids, or standard Wookiee Infantry.
It reduces the number of troops from 55570 with 1410 to a much more manageable 415 with 86 vehicles. I think it would give ground battles a much more intimate feel, allow you to personalize troops more effectively, and make ground battles much less of a headache and perhaps even bolster them. I would expand further on this but I need to get ready for work. Also this may not have a response to everything talked about, I typically like to do that, but I've missed a few posts over the last couple days. I will however read up on posts I've missed and comment on them in the next day or two if I feel the need.
