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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Nov 21, 2019 13:30:16 GMT -8
So, after having some time to review some submissions, I posed the question to my fellow RPA's of how many Space Stations were known to have cloaking systems/sensor jamming technology. For the most part, the response was next to none, with only the Shadow Academy and the Death Star II featuring it (the former being a mobile base, while the later had a ground based system for "cloaking" it).
So, it begs the questions: Are sensor jamming/cloaking devices viable technology on Space Stations of any size? Should they be allowed for use in the database on custom space stations? Would you consider sensor jamming/cloaking devices to be viable on small satellites (100 meters or less), with anything larger not being feasible?
Personally, my opinion, is that small satellites would be fine to have sensor jamming/cloaking technology, but anything larger is just not canonically backed. We have two examples of where they existed in canon, and one of them wasn't even providing the ability itself.
What do you think?
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Darth Flvin
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Post by Darth Flvin on Nov 21, 2019 13:39:02 GMT -8
Ya I 100% agree with keeping that sort of technology on anything less the 100m. Anything bigger then that doesn't make a ton of sense, a small satellite with a sensor jamming capability would.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Nov 21, 2019 19:22:54 GMT -8
With my Graemon character, I had planned for a listening post on Froz with a ground facility, supported by an array of long-range satellites. I feel that a ground based facility is better suited for powering countermeasure technology compared to a space station.
Now granted, we do have the Shadow Academy battlestation in Canon, but that was a gargantuan structure, it was a battlestation too, and it was mobile. It needed such countermeasures to ensure it could remain aloof and be hard to find. A stationary target, with such things, will easily be found I fear.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Nov 21, 2019 21:30:31 GMT -8
When it comes to sensor jamming, I see no reason why such a thing can't be added in. When orbiting a world, it is more than likely going to be noticed. But if placed on the far side of a moon or even somewhere out in space away from most locations.
When it comes to a full cloak, I'm more iffy on the matter, but sensor jamming has my approval for any sized station.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Nov 21, 2019 22:14:24 GMT -8
Death Star I seemed to have a sensor jamming device (hundreds of them apparently) that did this trick, so my opinion has slightly changed about it. Placement can be a thing too, but for something as small as the space stations in our database, I feel there won't be enough power for them.
I am very much against full cloaking though, more so than the sensor jamming. Cloaking technology has always been an iffy subject.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Nov 21, 2019 22:21:59 GMT -8
Then how are we able to utilize sensor hammers on things as small as starfighters? I know that the make up of the systems would be different, but I don’t see small stations having issues powering the system.
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Jenia Kasalle
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Post by Jenia Kasalle on Nov 22, 2019 4:32:17 GMT -8
Guess Stealth for Space stations is kinda unlikely, since stealth in Star Wars is often based on the enemy ships not having an opponent ship on the radar, making therefore smaller ships the prefered choice as stealth vessels. Yet even without systems you would still see the space station - therefore it's not even worth considering at all for a big, stationary target in my opinion. Wheras cloaking systems would require a good ammount of energy, if we speak of true stealth. The most famous example, the Republic Stealth ship was just 100 meters in length, probably for a reason. Argueably, there were in Legends attempts to install stealth technology on ships like an Executor-class Star Destroyer , but since it was blown up by rebells before installation we can't say for sure if something like this would fully work on a space station. And neither would it be common to happen often, as that technology is still rare. So, if at best I would argue that limiting a faction to 1 cloaked space station at max is the best offer here, although I'd argue to rather not allow it on space stations as well. Wheras regular stealth just wouldn't make too much sense given how big most space stations like the ones of the Golan-series for example are.
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Nov 22, 2019 5:56:12 GMT -8
I think it’s worth pointing out in the case of the Death Star, that it was a massive mobile structure, and it also clearly did not work on a vessel of that size, since the rebels were able to pick it up on scanners (assuming the Empire weren’t just being idiots and turned the network of sensor masks off when approaching Yavin).
It’s not so much that smaller stations cannot power them. In fact, I still maintain that anything smaller than 100 meters for a station is the only real thing that could feasibly have sensor masking/cloaking technology installed and have it actually work.
Stealth systems would introduce a number of issues depending upon the type they were (from double blind effect, to issues with power management on larger vessels). Sensor Jammers don’t really have the same issues if you’re on the far side of a planet and not within visual range for larger stations. But would be otherwise useless, since if you can see it, you can still shoot at it.
There is also the inherit issue that space stations can be up to 4km and have no restrictions on their size tied to factions.
But again, there is not a whole lot of evidence within Canon to support space stations with stealth/jamming technology. Ships with these types of systems are quiten common. But we have 3 stations (1 which clearly did not work, 1 provided by a planet side base, and 1 which was for a mobile academy) which were examples.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Nov 22, 2019 6:21:11 GMT -8
Argueably, there were in Legends attempts to install stealth technology on ships like an Executor-class Star Destroyer , but since it was blown up by rebells before installation we can't say for sure if something like this would fully work on a space station. And neither would it be common to happen often, as that technology is still rare. One such attempt did work though, Jenia. Cause, while you are using the Terror as an example here, the Night Hammer (later renamed the Knight Hammer) had stealth plating on it and succeeded in existing and battling under two warlords till the attack on Yavin IV by Daala. A service history of 7 to 8 years.
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Jenia Kasalle
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Post by Jenia Kasalle on Nov 22, 2019 6:45:54 GMT -8
Argueably, there were in Legends attempts to install stealth technology on ships like an Executor-class Star Destroyer , but since it was blown up by rebells before installation we can't say for sure if something like this would fully work on a space station. And neither would it be common to happen often, as that technology is still rare. One such attempt did work though, Jenia. Cause, while you are using the Terror as an example here, the Night Hammer (later renamed the Knight Hammer) had stealth plating on it and succeeded in existing and battling under two warlords till the attack on Yavin IV by Daala. A service history of 7 to 8 years. Oh right! Yeah, I looked up all ships, which has some sort of Stygium generator or stealth generator in general on them, but true, the Night Hammer is a valid argument against my theory here. Fair enough.
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Dec 2, 2019 8:21:57 GMT -8
So, putting aside the Super Star Destroyers, which were mobile craft, and in and of themselves, unique situations. The question still remains: should sensor jamming and stealth technology be allowed on space stations, given the very rare canon examples of it?
It appears that Stealth technology has a bit more a definite no so far, while sensor jamming is more on the ok side.
To address a point, I honestly don;t foresee powering things as being an issue for smaller stations with sensor jamming. In fact, I think smaller stations should be the only things with it. It's just that at a certain point with a stationary object, a sensor jammer becomes pointless. Yes, the first Death Star had Sensor Jamming, but that appears to have been entirely useless since there were multiple points during Episode IV in which the thing was clearly showing on sensors. Honestly, If we're talking power, I'd imagine the reverse of Nicademus' statement to be true. In that the larger you went, the more power would be consumed to power the Sensor Jammer. Which is honestly how most things work. The larger they are, the more power hungry they become.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Dec 2, 2019 9:59:15 GMT -8
I still feel that sensor jammers are fine on any size and full stealth being no.
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Post by The Elusive Man on Dec 3, 2019 12:45:53 GMT -8
So allow me to point out that in my submissions, I have Sensor Jamming/Masking. Jamming would be for enemy ships and fighters. Masking would be used to keep the exact location of a station hidden (excluding doing a visual scan). There is nothing mentioned about any sort of stealth capabilities whatsoever. When I speak of sensor masking, I am more referring to a device that operates like this ---> Vanish 2 Military Sensor Masking SystemAnd when I speak of sensor jamming, I am more referring to a device that operates like this ---> 220-SIG Tactical Sensor Jamming DeviceNeither of which are intended to operate like true cloaking systems. ~TI
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 3, 2019 12:48:19 GMT -8
I believe the stealth capabilities was just thrown into the discussion to cover any sort of major countermeasure to ensures a level of secrecy for space stations. That mention was not meant to be indicating of your submission as Zion certainly knows it was not on it. But, best we cover our bases now than later.
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Post by The Elusive Man on Dec 3, 2019 12:54:03 GMT -8
Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify so we could avoid confusion further down the line.
~TI
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Dec 3, 2019 15:50:27 GMT -8
Indeed, Nicademus has the right of it here. Sensor Masking/Jamming technology merely happened to remind me of Stealth Systems at the same time, hence why I brought them up together, so as to save us time having to have separate discussions on the items.
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Post by Viox Savage on Dec 14, 2019 19:16:13 GMT -8
So where are we with this? Seems like nothing has really come from it as of yet.
Personally, I feel as though there really isn't any sort of issue with a space station being able to mask its own sensors or jam that of other incoming vessels as a defense mechanism. It's a space station, after all, not an SSD. And due to the handicaps that space stations already have, logically this doesn't give anything more than a temporary advantage in combat, as a visual scan would reveal the station.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Dec 14, 2019 19:26:39 GMT -8
I was just about to ask and see where things sat so we can finish moving forward with the current stations.
But I still stand on the idea that masks and jammers are fine for any ship. It provides only a small advantage for a small amount of time compared to ships due to the majority being situated near planets. But in the instance of it being behind a moon or deeper in space, it works to keep it out of people's attention for far longer. The station having the capability of powering it neither seems to be an issue in my eye as if a ship of any size can do it, there is no reason a station can't.
But regarding full stealth, yes, I agree that stations shouldn't have it because unlike a ship's using it to simply sneak around or making themselves known in a surprise attack, stations can just hide indefinitely until any power is possibly used up.
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Dec 14, 2019 20:53:34 GMT -8
At this stage, I'd like to get Nicademus Delvardus IV and Jenia Kasalle to give their feelings on the sensor masking/jamming part of the discussion, since they've both contributed to the discussion thus far.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 14, 2019 21:07:04 GMT -8
I believe Luxeria has the idea right. Although, I do feel like that the masks and jammers will require some sort of surface installation, considering there is a canon example of that. While I do see no issue in stations having these countermeasures, I am still of the opinion that they can't properly power them and may need a surface installation, that houses the source, in order to properly power the countermeasures in question.
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