Luxeria
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“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
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Post by Luxeria on Sept 6, 2018 8:06:49 GMT -8
Upon a little discussion in the Blackguard Reborn thread, I couldn’t help but wonder, do we have a topic or thread for writing advise and how to possibly improve one’s writing? If not, would it possible to make one where people can put their own advise or talk with those who feel their work is lacking?
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Sept 6, 2018 9:08:18 GMT -8
We do now... walks away, with a job well done
I mean, we can certainly set up something officially, but I feel like this thread or one like it in the roleplay planning area works just fine.
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Jair Crawford
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Post by Jair Crawford on Sept 6, 2018 9:20:27 GMT -8
Unofficial is better I think. Just because there was a time in the past when such things were official, and while well intentioned, it lead to an elite standard that wasn't good for encouraging new players, which is the opposite of what the goal is here.
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Stevan Stormro
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Post by Stevan Stormro on Sept 6, 2018 10:08:02 GMT -8
I can definitely speak from experience when I say that posting perfectionism can absolutely destroy posting rates and do far worse things to plots and storylines than slightly less than perfect posts. Such perfectionism has been the cause of at least a few of the times that I have gotten burnt out and needed to take a break from role playing. I agree with the suggestion that this sort of thing is best done unofficially and as something that writers come to the thread for at their own discretion.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Sept 6, 2018 10:55:30 GMT -8
This thread would be more than enough. Possibly be stickies to the top of the list so easily accessible to those looking for it.
But that is one thing to point out more than anything, this isn’t about perfect writing or conforming to a writing style for the boards. This is only meant to help those who want to improve their writing and have others read their work and see what they think. Many times, one feeling their writing is lacking is only because they wrote it when, in fact, it’s just as good as everyone elses. I thought they way at one point, and though I looked to doing a few things different, it was more of needing time to like what I had.
Short or long, direct and simple or complex, it doesn’t matter. It’s all about finding a style and flow that fits with you and that people can understand. If people can read the advice here and creating a style of writing that makes them happy, mission accomplished. If a style you are trying doesn’t work or seems stressful, try and different approach. There is no one way to write.
In fact, I’d almost think creating a new thread with that disclaimer in bold to start might be a better option to try and convey that this isn’t about perfection or conformity
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Garrick Needa
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Post by Garrick Needa on Sept 6, 2018 11:02:27 GMT -8
Wow, I didn't actually think my commenting on Luxeria's writing would go anywhere, but here we are.
I have to say, I fully agree with Luxeria's proposal. I do feel as though some new writers are often turned off because they think they aren't good at writing (myself included). Plus, I will probably be a heavy user of the thread.
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Aerandir Calmcacil
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Post by Aerandir Calmcacil on Sept 6, 2018 11:30:20 GMT -8
Throughout my many years of writing here, as my style constantly shifted and developed, an idea I absorbed both from discussions and reading others' posts is "less is more." Hell, it's not an idea unique to JvS either, but I feel it's important. Details... some of us got so caught up in them, myself included. Used to see these other writers posting these large chunks of text and feeling inadequate, so I started to add more to my writing to "keep up."
I hate those posts now. They're full of what I call "fluff." Meant to look nice and little else.
Detail-laden posts have their place, especially when setting scenery, analytical moments, or when the history of an object or character is relevant. Insight is important, but it doesn't need to be omnipresent. You want things to flow as best as they can. Keeps the RP moving, makes for an easier read overall, helps a lot with investment. It's incredibly easy to lose people in the nittygritty. "Show, don't tell" is key. Readers love to pick up on implications and wonder what they mean. If you're wondering how that works in writing as opposed to visual media, it's telling a story through character actions and dialogue rather than expository narrative. Again, narrative is fine, even necessary at points, but it can disrupt the flow easily, and flow is key.
In short, details have their place, but generally less is more. Show, don't tell; flow is key.
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Stevan Stormro
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Post by Stevan Stormro on Sept 6, 2018 11:46:12 GMT -8
I used to have the same problem as Aer, and ended up having to learn how to recognize when I was starting to fluff a post so I could put the brakes on and wrap it up without the fluff. Sometimes a short, quick response is exactly what is needed to move an RP forward; as long as you’ve acknowledged everything that you wanted to in the post you’re replying to don’t worry too much about the length.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Sept 6, 2018 13:31:11 GMT -8
While I do respect both Stevan and Aer's response, this isn't what this thread is meant to be about. While I know that you both are stating your feelings on how you wished to write, and of course, that advice is valuable to those who wish to follow that, the way you both are approaching this makes it seem that posts need to be written that way for the sake of everyone, even if it means a writer having to sacrifice their own approach.
I'm merely pointing out the way it seems to read, not in attempt to be rude or say you're wrong. But if someone is looking to write here and develop a style for themselves, they should be free to explore that and find something that makes them happy to write. To me, while structure, detail and word play is important in writing, enjoyment and satisfaction in what you write is even more important. As you said Stevan, trying to write perfect and follow perfectionism burnt you out. As such, if you feel that way, change the way you want to write. And if that does mean longer posts that have more "fluff" as you guys call it, then they should be free to do so.
I don't think what you want to read should ever be put into this as it starts developing a mindset in others. If people like the way you write and you tell them what you like and don't like reading in other people's posts, they may feel pressured to write that way though they don't like just to so you'll read and like theirs. I don't want anyone trying to follow my approach to writing just because they find out what I like. It takes from their creativity.
You guys have some good advice for an approach to writing, but the wording makes it feel like making a thread for those who seek improvement on their writing is not needed, that it'll make people seek perfection and hurt people's writing so we should just look into writing like this as it makes everyone happy and keeps things moving. Like I said, I don't believe that to be your intention but merely in the wording, which I know is something that happens. Sounds good in our head, sounds right when written out, but is seen differently by others.
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Jair Crawford
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Post by Jair Crawford on Sept 6, 2018 13:42:46 GMT -8
While I do respect both Stevan and Aer's response, this isn't what this thread is meant to be about. While I know that you both are stating your feelings on how you wished to write, and of course, that advice is valuable to those who wish to follow that, the way you both are approaching this makes it seem that posts need to be written that way for the sake of everyone, even if it means a writer having to sacrifice their own approach. I'm merely pointing out the way it seems to read, not in attempt to be rude or say you're wrong. But if someone is looking to write here and develop a style for themselves, they should be free to explore that and find something that makes them happy to write. To me, while structure, detail and word play is important in writing, enjoyment and satisfaction in what you write is even more important. As you said Stevan, trying to write perfect and follow perfectionism burnt you out. As such, if you feel that way, change the way you want to write. And if that does mean longer posts that have more "fluff" as you guys call it, then they should be free to do so. I don't think what you want to read should ever be put into this as it starts developing a mindset in others. If people like the way you write and you tell them what you like and don't like reading in other people's posts, they may feel pressured to write that way though they don't like just to so you'll read and like theirs. I don't want anyone trying to follow my approach to writing just because they find out what I like. It takes from their creativity. You guys have some good advice for an approach to writing, but the wording makes it feel like making a thread for those who seek improvement on their writing is not needed, that it'll make people seek perfection and hurt people's writing so we should just look into writing like this as it makes everyone happy and keeps things moving. Like I said, I don't believe that to be your intention but merely in the wording, which I know is something that happens. Sounds good in our head, sounds right when written out, but is seen differently by others. I think that's exactly the point they are trying to make though, only it was worded specifically from their own personal experiences. There is absolutely nothing wrong with fluffing up ones posts if that's how they want to write, but, we went through a time on the site where we all felt pressured, by the mechanics of the site itself, to write specifically that way. Hence the hesitation there. I actually agree with pretty much everything you said though. If people want to break the character limit, do it! If people wanna bounce one liners off of each other, do it! But do it because -you- want to, not because of social pressure. And as for this thread it's the same way. If you want writing advice, come here to get it. But is totally voluntary.
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Luxeria
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Post by Luxeria on Sept 6, 2018 14:02:24 GMT -8
Exactly. That's what I want people to find. Improvement doesn't happen over night. Even when you find a style that you like writing in, time will help form it better. when I started trying to write as I do now, I tended to add unnecessary fluff, adding more details than needed, even to the point of occasionally repeating things that were never meant to be. Truth is, I still think that remains from time to time.
I've read one liners that were both great and boring just like I've seen large posts the same way. I'm not bothered by big amounts of detail or lack thereof, it doesn't hinder my ability to read through posts and post accordingly. If its a story I'm interested in and gets my imagination going, I can go through pages in a heartbeat or take days to read through a single page.
Even the best structured and detailed post that looks like it came from the best author alive can be empty and boring, merely because someone's heart wasn't in it. Sometimes, you come across points where nothing has really happened in a few posts, where little is given that you're response has only a few sentences. There's no need to write more, no need to force anything out. I used to do that. Now, I write based off of what I have to use. So a couple sentences get written. Sometimes, just a few words ties in emotions and memory from a character, things that flash through the mind suddenly. Maybe you write some detail, give flashback about it. Maybe you just need to make a slight mention. Write in a way that you want to and that makes you happy. Starting there is a good place to start, letting everything else settle in as you go, be it through exposure or advice from others around you.
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