Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 16:41:03 GMT -8
If this actually goes anywhere, you'll torpedo any chance of Dressel joining the Republic. Jedi support is pretty much the only card you guys are holding at the moment. Accusing the whole order of war crimes would A: require everyone to forget the actual meaning of the term and B: would alienate both prospective and current members. But hey, it's your dick, and I'm not one to tell you that you can't stick it in a blender if you really want.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 14, 2014 16:53:42 GMT -8
In this moment Supreme Chancellor Cihlbar is like the only member of the Senate that is still pro Jedi. VC Darma is open to mendng fences, but 'everyone' else is anti Jedi because of their inefficiency to deal with the Mando Crusade.
which Dressel was impacted, if not slightly, by Jedi troubles and Mando pursuits. I also saw the Dressel RP as an isolated story, but hey. And as the Dressel. .ians(?) would know, the Jedi are present at negotiations. Even if 'imvestigations' are opened, the Jedi will still be involved unless officially mandated not to. In my opinion. . .as the leader of the Repiblic.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 14, 2014 16:56:28 GMT -8
And just because we haven't RPed put the fleets and resources, doesn't mean we don't have the resources to compete. We just haven't prioritize putting the resources out there without writers to support it. In theory. They are there. :-P
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 3:44:35 GMT -8
"The fact the Republic refused to help the Jedi, because the Mando Crusade was only about Force Users, only to call it an inefficiency on the Jedi's part later on" cop-out aside, what Jedi is going to aid the Republic, whilst the Jedi are being labelled War Criminals by the Republic itself? And what War Crimes are they even being brought up for? last I remember, War Crimes related to "serious violation of the laws and customs of war (also known as international humanitarian law) giving rise to individual criminal responsibility" (wikipedia) these happen to include: murdering, mistreating, or deporting civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps murdering or mistreating prisoners of war or civilian internees forcing protected persons to serve in the forces of a hostile power killing hostages killing or punishing spies or other persons convicted of war crimes without a fair trial wantonly destroying cities, towns, villages, or any object not warranted by military necessity Maybe I'm rusty on my understanding of the Jedi, but any one of these is grounds for an immediate expulsion from the Jedi Order for a single person. So what's the theory that the entire Order would have committed any of these?
I'm failing to see some of the logic here, so I hope Crom'nen and co will shed a little more light on this situation, cause so far things are being played close to the chest, and really not making a great deal of sense. Honestly, it really feels like we are suffering the IC consequences of certain individuals OOC actions. Especially as something of a new Jedi myself, it's quite disheartening to see how eager the Republic is to turn on the Jedi, especially as some of what I have heard of Crom'nens objectives seem to be premeditated from an OOC stance to use OOC events as IC grounds to launch this "witch hunt". But I hope there is proof and reason to show otherwise.
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Crom'nen
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Affiliation: loyal only to himself, working with Ryloth and the GR
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Post by Crom'nen on Jul 15, 2014 6:57:35 GMT -8
Rawkill, rest assure of whose side Crom'nen is on, as I have made no secret about: his own. He always has been and always will be.
But that does not make me your enemy. OOC, I support the Republic much more than Crom'nen does IC. Allow me to clarify a few things.
First of all, I am putting on A Jedi on trial. Mahir and I have preplanned this OOC. As far as the crime, "wantonly destroying cities, towns, villages, or any object not warranted by military necessity." Does the capital city of Ryloth count?
Crom'nen also believes that by doing this trial, by securing a conviction, he will have the opportunity to save the Republic and bring it and the Jedi closer together, not further away.
Also, on a personal note, I'm sick of this thing of "the Republic wouldn't help the Jedi during the Mando crisis." Bull shit. My character went and negotiated with the head Mando to convince them to divide their resources so the Jedi would survive. And he spent a month in captivity because of it. Did you know that? I bet not. And... it worked. What did I get in return? When an invasion fleet showed up at Ryloth, I was PMed by the Jedi in charge of the fleet that they were pulling out and that I was on my own, even knowing that I had no IC fleets there, and to bring one in that never existed before would be, for lack of a better term, cheating. OOC, I offered my help to try to see how we could work with the Jedi, and was told to buzz off. We didn't turn our backs on the Jedi. Instead, I was told by certain Jedi players how much better you all were than me, and that you all didn't need me help.
So before you attack us, please understand that while a minority of your faction may have been at fault, it was a vocal minority who informed us that they Jedi didn't need the Republic, that you were better than the Republic, and that we should get in line and do whatever the Jedi say. That's not the way it worked. Jedi were guardians of the Republic, not gods that lorded over it. So I do appreciate ones like Mahir, Will Sontir, and Dav Man'sell who act like we're on the same team, not your slaves to beat and abuse and discard as you see fit.
Before you go on the attack, why don't you pause to listen for a moment? To see our point of view? We want to work with you, not under you, and we're tired of it. So please, have a little faith in us. We are trying. Mahir is also trying to bring us closer together. Let us see this out before you jump to conclusions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 8:39:39 GMT -8
What this looks like is an OOC vendetta being played out in an IC sort of way. Spin it how you want, ask for understanding as much as you want, so long as you know that your actions have wider consequences, and no amount of spin control is gonna change that. If you're cool with that, get down with your bad self.
IC wise, it's going to look like you're making a scapegoat of Mahir to the folks on Dressel, and is going to make it difficult for the Republic to sway them into voting to join.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 15, 2014 9:06:42 GMT -8
I am really struggling to figure out why the Dressel RP has to be externally impacted at all, especially since it is only a monthly RP being played out. Even if it is played out thussly, the Dresselians should be pissed that the Jedi brought the war to their front yard.
I can assure you that GR will IC come back around toward the Jedi, but the overarching narrative needs to address the IC tension so that we can move forward.
OOC everyone wants to have stronger bonds but the GR and the JO have been floundering in RP and authors. This will help with both of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 9:10:25 GMT -8
If you've ever seen an election, you know that everything plays in. They're going to be watching and dissecting every move made by both governments.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 15, 2014 9:16:50 GMT -8
As a national politico and pollster, I get it.
on a microcosmic RP literary stand point, it adds waaay more variables then (I only personally feel) needs to be for a small storyline to be wrapped up in less then a month.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 9:20:30 GMT -8
And I feel the people of Dressel will watch the news.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 15, 2014 9:56:58 GMT -8
I am not DM for the SL, but I stand by that opinion for the Dressel RP regardless of how anyone feels the GR is handling their JO IC relationship.
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Crom'nen
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Affiliation: loyal only to himself, working with Ryloth and the GR
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Post by Crom'nen on Jul 15, 2014 10:29:57 GMT -8
Eralam, I understand your perspective. I really do. But this isn't an "us vs. them" thing. This isn't against the Jedi at all. But IC actions should have IC consequences. As far as I know, the OOC people responsible aren't even on the site anymore. That isn't spin. It's truth.
Mahir and I have set this up, preplanned it, and we are standing together. We are doing this story together. We are doing this together so that there are IC consequences to IC actions by the Jedi involved. Mahir has chosen to stand in because he was there and saw what those other Jedi did as a problem, and he wants to fix it, so we came up with this idea. Our characters are going to hash this out publicly, in the court of public opinion. If he is seen as justified, then great. If he is seen as guilty, he will take the punishment that Crom'nen decides. Then this will be OVER.
Regardless, it seems that a lot of people have opinions, with little facts. The people who were personally involved and know what happened (being Mahir and I) are not angry. We just thought that this would make an interesting story.
Perhaps, before anyone else posts, you should ask yourself "If the people who are involved are not upset, then why am I?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 11:20:01 GMT -8
I am not going to hide behind new account. Looking to join the senatorial ranks as the Senator from Scipio, a planet that has been affiliated with the republic throughout the clone wars
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Ludo Karesh
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Posts: 40
Affiliation: Galactic Republic
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Post by Ludo Karesh on Jul 15, 2014 12:07:22 GMT -8
I believe that we can use this RP to help bring a resolution to the perceived conflicts between the Jedi and the Republic. I also have a plan that might create greater unity between the two organizations. This storyline is the perfect time to introduce my bill to the senate.
My bill has three clauses. First, the Republic will reform the Antarian Rangers as a military force to help the already overextended jedi maintain peace. Second, the jedi order will be admitted into the republic as a member state with all the perks and limitations that implies. They will provide represenation to the Senate and will be subject to all Republic laws: laws that they will help write. Third, the senate will be able to appoint a member to the Jedi council.
IC my character was an Antarian Ranger for many years and still desires to help the jedi as much as he can, but he still believes that they should be regulated a little more by the government.
OOC since most of the senators also play Jedi, the Galactic Republic does not have the members necessary to even have their own SSD. This will help provide greater protection to republic and jedi worlds during the cold war.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 15, 2014 13:18:38 GMT -8
The first two clauses are superflous as the jedi's relationship is solidified in the Galactic Republic Charter.
go ahead and propose the ranger thing though. Why not.
what I am finding curious about aspects of this . . .dialogue is that I am in the dark about a number of these storylines. If it involves the GR I'd kinda be in the know. Not that I'm opposed to any of it. Just the first I'm hearing about it.
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Post by Chancellor Cihlbar on Jul 15, 2014 13:19:01 GMT -8
And who is Ludo?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 14:12:54 GMT -8
senator from Tralus... or so i would guess
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Duke Australis
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Affiliation: Ashrah Ithalbo and Clan Australis
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Post by Duke Australis on Jul 15, 2014 14:53:09 GMT -8
The Long missing senator from tralus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:40:16 GMT -8
Crom'nen, I appreciate the clarification. For a while, things seemed very vaguely worded and like it was the whole Order and not just a single Jedi that was being accused. I admit I was quick to jump to some conclusions, however, it looks like there has been some good explanation laid out since then, and more than just yourself and Mahir know where we should all be standing with regards to this, especially since this could mean the Jedi Order would be keeping an eye on the trial and need to consider what to do with Mahir in the event he is found guilty.
I think I can safely say that now that we both have our cards laid out on the table, some misunderstandings have been resolved. It saddens me that writers within the Jedi would act in such a way, especially since Crom'nen lended the Jedi aid IC. That said, it's also troubling that a vocal minority are used to represent the majority of Jedi, but I guess Real World problems also plague fictional organizations as well... Hopefully all goes well, and we can actually start working together again.
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Will Sontir
The Jedi Order
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Post by Will Sontir on Jul 15, 2014 20:15:34 GMT -8
It was/is a tumultuous time for the JO in the recovery from the Mando War both IC and OOC. A lot of people left the yard to play when the bog boys and the cool kids took their balls and toys and went home. :-/
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