Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898 
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 21, 2020 12:01:49 GMT -8
Looking through this list, it certainly becomes a task trying to establish a limit per class. Especially when some of the smaller ships are the ones that carry the heavier complement. Trying to establish a good limit that doesn't fully hinder most ships. Still looking things over.
I also like the idea of having a cap for the number of starfighters used that don't count towards fleet points, but the option of using points to utilize more fighters if a ship's capacity is more than the cap limit.
|
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 21, 2020 12:22:49 GMT -8
Some ranges for the following classes:
Support: 4
Corvette: 12
Frigate: 24-72
Cruiser: 120-72
Star Frigate: 216-168
Light Star Destroyer: 288-240
Star Destroyer:
Heavy Star Destroyer:
Light Star Cruiser:
Star Cruiser:
Heavy Star Cruiser:
Star Dreadnaught:
Star Battleship:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 12:31:38 GMT -8
I like it so far
|
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 21, 2020 12:34:05 GMT -8
The other option and one that will place heavy limits is the limit we use for determining whether or not a point is used for hangar space.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 12:46:16 GMT -8
what about using some of the Fleet points for more starfighters, the Idea Mike had mentioned on Discord last night?
|
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 21, 2020 12:56:38 GMT -8
I did mention that in the post just above the ranges. But I do think we should look into that. Have a solid number of fighters that don't count towards fleet points, then anything over requiring points to use. Allows players to utilize their starfighters in normal instances with no penalty to points, but let's those who wish to be fighter heavy have the means to do so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 17:03:23 GMT -8
sorry about that. I must have missed it. and i agree completely
|
|
Viox Savage
Blackguard Imperium
"You want the same as me. My redemption, eternal ascension. Setting me free."
Posts: 2,938 
Affiliation: Sith Order
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Viox Savage on Jan 22, 2020 4:30:55 GMT -8
I agree with Luxeria. Having a starfighter 'cap' per class is beneficial, with any extra fighters utilizing fleet points. It sort of takes the best of both worlds, as it were, in how this works. Or at least it seems like it does to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Admiralty OOC on Jan 25, 2020 19:43:55 GMT -8
This is how I feel about the cap, it shouldn't be looking at dedicated carriers for how many fighters. Instead, more multirole ships. Additionally, I thing the 'cap' would be a good base setting for how many additional fighters each point of hanger space grants. So putting one point into hanger space would give the ship (cap+second cap), while an additional third point would give three times (cap + second cap + third cap). That way if you want a carrier that is very good at actually carrying a lot of fighters, you have to gut some other stat to do it (just like designers in lore had to).
BASIC CAP:
Support: 0
Corvette: 0
Frigate: 12
Cruiser: 12
Star Frigate: 12
Light Star Destroyer: 24
Star Destroyer: 24
Heavy Star Destroyer: 24
Light Star Cruiser: 36
Star Cruiser: 36
Heavy Star Cruiser: 36
Star Dreadnaught: 48
Star Battleship: 48
For example a SD with one point in hanger space would be able to carry 48 fighters. & one with 2 points in hanger would be able to carry 72, & so on.
|
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 25, 2020 20:16:34 GMT -8
Are you referring to points in regard to the MAD system? Because we arent’t looking at caps regarding points regarding the MAD system. We are looking at caps regarding fleet points. A cap in which we don’t use fleet points with the idea that if you want to use more fighters than the cap, you pay for them with fleet points.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Admiralty OOC on Jan 27, 2020 18:08:22 GMT -8
For both actually.
Basically if the person didn't want to use fleet points to buy fighter escorts, they would use those numbers.
& for ships in the MAD, those numbers would be used to determine how many fighters the ship could carry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Jan 27, 2020 18:24:48 GMT -8
Yeah, right now I think it would be best to figure out what the starfighter caps are for each size range. Then we can start discussing how much a fleet point converts into for increasing a ships fighter cap. Then, if we really need/want to, we can start seeing if the MAD system's hangar bay point should increase a ships carrying capacity by X amount for each point added.
with that said, I haven't had much of a chance yet to really dive into what the average starfighter carrying capacity for each size is, but I feel like the caps Admy suggested are alright for the lower range of size's. Though I feel like the Heavy Star Destroyer and above caps are not particularly indicative of the ships that tend to fit into those size ranges. The Executor (in the star battleship class) has 1,000 starfighters and that's not specifically a carrier ship. so 48 in that size range seems really... handicapped there. And most Heavy Star Destroyers carry significantly more than 24 starfighters, and a lot of them are multirole ships.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Admiralty OOC on Jan 27, 2020 19:14:25 GMT -8
Technically, the Executor only carried 144 TIEs. Despite its incredible size.
|
|
Jenia Kasalle
Databank Operations
Posts: 512
Affiliation: First Order
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Jenia Kasalle on Jan 28, 2020 0:18:42 GMT -8
Technically, the Executor only carried 144 TIEs. Despite its incredible size. Because I would assume it was designed as a multi-purpose ship, spending more space on other stuff like fire-power, garrisons, etc. However, seeing the Venator and other examples within Star Wars, where carrier ships can carry a large ammount of ships despite their smaller size, I would assume that they could be refit in a way, that they can carry more than the standard starfighters for the sacrifice of other space within. Not saying that this would justify incredible ammounts of star fighters aboard one giant faction ship, but when it comes to anything larger than a personal ship, I would assume that faction leaders treat their vessels in a reasonable way when submitting them, sacrificing either a feature of a previous model for more starfighters or designing the ship in general in a way, that it is optimized, but still features weaknesses within the MAD system. |
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Jan 28, 2020 8:40:24 GMT -8
When it comes down to it, I don't believe the MAD system and the points affecting hangar space has anything to do with the allowance of starfighters to be used without using fleet points. Yes, it can work that whatever limit cap we have for the MAD system works as our cap here, but that is about where it ends, I feel. Creating additional points for larger hangars puts a heavy strain of the system as it currently stands, making many ships custom and canon needing edits or breaking the system. And if we have canon ships breaking it left and right, then it doesn't serve the purpose it once did.
As for looking at the current ships as carriers, its to first give us a ceiling for the class as we know. That way we have a better understanding of how far we need to reign back and at what point a class needs a cap because the fighter limits the class carries. For example, I don't feel Support or Corvette classes need a limit as it seems the most carried is 4 and 12 respectively. As such, that can be the cap in the off chance another craft comes along that can exceed them. Because having the restrictions that have been mentioned such as a Star Destroyer being capped at 24 fighters is rather severe for the class. If anything, I would suggest maybe a squad or two above the point limit for the MAD system, if not what the MAD point requirement sits at.
Support: 4
Corvette: 12
Frigate: 24-48
Cruiser: 36-60
Star Frigate: 48-72
Light Star Destroyer: 60-84
Star Destroyer: 72-96
Heavy Star Destroyer: 96-120
Light Star Cruiser: 108-132
Star Cruiser: 120-144
Heavy Star Cruiser: 132-156
Star Dreadnaught: 144-168
Star Battleship: 156-180
After reaching that cap, fleet points are required to use any more fighters their ships could carry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Feb 1, 2020 10:23:26 GMT -8
I believe these caps are agreeable. I do agree that capping some classes, like Star Destroyer at a 24, is a very severe cap. That completely destroys the function of a lot of those in that class that serve a dual role as battleships and sizable carriers like the ISDs and Nebulas. I do agree with using the fleet points doesn't state the allowance of fighter capacity, but rather enhances it, especially when we have remodels, refits, modernizations, and custom upgrades of various ships (like the ISD III).
|
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Feb 2, 2020 21:52:39 GMT -8
It really depends upon how the system for converting fleet points to starfighter points works.
Cause as it stands, these would be alright limits:
Support: 4
Corvette: 12
Frigate: 48
Cruiser: 60
Star Frigate: 72
Light Star Destroyer: 84
Star Destroyer: 96
Heavy Star Destroyer: 120
Light Star Cruiser: 132
Star Cruiser: 144
Heavy Star Cruiser: 156
Star Dreadnaught: 168
Star Battleship: 180
However, I'd like to see what ideas we'd be looking at in terms of fleet points to additional starfighter space we'd be working with. Because if we can come up with a workable system for that, then a smaller limit would work.
But if we can't come up with something workable for the conversion, then I'd think we may want to look at the higher end for what the max limit per class is, so that some of the existing carrier ships are not losing out on more than half of their carrying space when that is what they have been designed for (both Canon and Custom).
|
|
Viox Savage
Blackguard Imperium
"You want the same as me. My redemption, eternal ascension. Setting me free."
Posts: 2,938
Affiliation: Sith Order
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Viox Savage on Feb 3, 2020 0:51:09 GMT -8
Support: 4 Corvette: 12 Frigate: 24-48 Cruiser: 36-60 Star Frigate: 48-72 Light Star Destroyer: 60-84 Star Destroyer: 72-96 Heavy Star Destroyer: 96-120 Light Star Cruiser: 108-132 Star Cruiser: 120-144 Heavy Star Cruiser: 132-156 Star Dreadnaught: 144-168 Star Battleship: 156-180 These numbers are solid. And fair. You've obviously put a fair amount of thought into this, and it shows. I agree with both Lux and Nic in what has been said so far. X amount cap for each class, with excess costing personal fleet points seems like the least confusing and most beneficial way to run with this to keep a happy medium. |
|
Luxeria
Member
“Even the strongest mind can be manipulated. It’s simply a matter of finding its weakness.”
Posts: 1,898
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Luxeria on Feb 3, 2020 7:47:07 GMT -8
It really depends upon how the system for converting fleet points to starfighter points works. Cause as it stands, these would be alright limits: Support: 4 Corvette: 12 Frigate: 48 Cruiser: 60 Star Frigate: 72 Light Star Destroyer: 84 Star Destroyer: 96 Heavy Star Destroyer: 120 Light Star Cruiser: 132 Star Cruiser: 144 Heavy Star Cruiser: 156 Star Dreadnaught: 168 Star Battleship: 180 However, I'd like to see what ideas we'd be looking at in terms of fleet points to additional starfighter space we'd be working with. Because if we can come up with a workable system for that, then a smaller limit would work. But if we can't come up with something workable for the conversion, then I'd think we may want to look at the higher end for what the max limit per class is, so that some of the existing carrier ships are not losing out on more than half of their carrying space when that is what they have been designed for (both Canon and Custom). What kind of system did you have in mind? I was expecting that once you reached the cap, you spent fleet points as normal for extra starfighters, 1/2 point for light, point for heavy or just a point overall. Thinking of some way to use points to get more than one? Maybe a point is actually worth a few fighters? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 20:01:43 GMT -8
I agree with Viox, Lux and Nic on this. I would restate what Viox just said, but that's a little bit redundant in my books.
|
|
![Zion Morviael [RETIRED] Avatar](https://i.imgur.com/WbGOLQP.jpg)
