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Post by Sithies Manager on Oct 10, 2013 11:37:04 GMT -8
What are the things that you think makes someone stand out for Best Female? What criteria do you think the Sithies judges should be looking for in nominations?
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Post by Lishra Elaric on Oct 11, 2013 15:48:15 GMT -8
Well, for starters, the judges could look at how well the character/writer understands and represents the role of the female in the Star Wars universe. Granted, there are many roles: leader, companion, victim, etc. I guess it's more about progress in whatever role they have. How are they as women learning to deal with the problems that they face? How accurately does their character showcase the good and bad, the pros and cons of being a female? What kind of role do they have and how does that reflect on their gender when compared with the famous cannon Star Wars female characters like Leia, Padme, Mara Jade, etc, as well as the other JvS contestant entries? HOW WELL are they playing their role?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 16:03:28 GMT -8
There are two primary components to this award: female and character. Pretty simple, really.
Does the writer convincingly portray a female?
Is the character a good one?
Both criteria are so broad that they really have to be approached on a case by case basis. If the writer fails at one or the other, it's pretty obvious, but success is much harder to define.
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Lita Trykk
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Post by Lita Trykk on Oct 11, 2013 17:08:35 GMT -8
It really shouldn't be "Best Female Character" and "Best Male Character." That implies the best female character will be judged based on her femininity, or best male character judged on his masculinity. So if the character isn't girly enough, she doesn't qualify?
It would be more apt, in my humble opinion, to list it as:
Best Character (Male)
Best Character (Female)
And have a single criteria description for what makes a BEST character, and then awarding one to a male character and one to a female character, rather than having the gender play a part in the criteria's filtering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 17:27:28 GMT -8
I disagree.
There are enough people writing the opposite gender that the ability to convincingly write that gender becomes a factor.
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Lita Trykk
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Post by Lita Trykk on Oct 11, 2013 17:51:52 GMT -8
Let me see if I can clarify my point a little better for you, Eralam.
With the highest respect to writers who write opposite gender to themselves, can you honestly say that there is a writer on this site that has successfully established a crossgender PC but has failed to write it convincingly? If it's established successfully, it's pretty much a given it's a successful character regardless of writing skill.
Does femininity truly make a better female character? And does masculinity make a better male character? Do those traits make a character more believable? Because there are plenty of masculine female characters written by female writers that are completely amazing and believable and awesome in their own right. Conversely, there are some flamboyant male characters that are equally awesome. Are we discounting those writers just because their characters don't fit traditional gender roles?
To add to that, how many unskilled writers have we run across, in which the big debate in chat is, "what gender is the writer?" Just because the gender is convincing doesn't mean the writing is good. If the writing is good, the gender is obviously going to be convincing and is a moot factor in the criteria anyway.
What I feel you're looking for is not the best "Female" character, but rather the best character written that just -happens- to be a female one. Same applies to Best Male Character. Pretty much like Best Male Actor and Best Female Actor. Actresses don't win Best Female Actor for being more womanly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 18:38:09 GMT -8
Big difference between femininity/masculinity and writing a convincing female or male. There are dozens of nuances to look for that aren't even remotely related.
There are very good writers that simply cannot convincingly write the opposite sex. If I have to consider the gender of the character in giving the award, then I'm going to take into account whether or not they pull it off.
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Lita Trykk
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Post by Lita Trykk on Oct 11, 2013 18:52:22 GMT -8
I am in full agreement that there is a big difference between femininity and a "convincing" female. I must have been confused as to what was being used to define a "convincing female" due to the description submitted in the first response above. So, as long as femininity is not a characteristic being used to define what makes a female character convincing, then I figure I have nothing to be concerned about, because the filter is redundant anyway.
After all, if a writer fails to write a convincing female character (or a convincing male character in the case of best male character), that just makes them a bad writer and not likely to be nominated anyway. Since you won't know the gender of the writer, it's a moot criteria. Problem solved.
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Darian Beviin
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Post by Darian Beviin on Oct 11, 2013 19:03:19 GMT -8
What if the gender role of the "best female character" is skewed from the norm? For instance, hey, what if she's butch?
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Lia Corusa
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Post by Lia Corusa on Oct 11, 2013 19:05:37 GMT -8
Maybe it would be helpful to know what kind of criteria the judges used before during the Sithies? I mean, how on earth would you even begin to judge something like this? There are multitudes of female characters, each good in her own way, and so very different from each other. It's like placing seven kinds of apples on the table and trying to pick the best one. It's matter of opinion.
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Post by Sithies Manager on Oct 11, 2013 19:13:10 GMT -8
What if the gender role of the "best female character" is skewed from the norm? For instance, hey, what if she's butch? Perhaps you should read the posts above yours a little closer. It is not about the feminine characteristics of the character, it is about a solid character, who happens to be female. We don't know what criteria they used before, hence our curiosity into what you believe the category means and what you think should be the things we look for. I believe there are universal points to a well written character, whether that character is male, female, lightside, darkside or what have you. |
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Darian Beviin
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Post by Darian Beviin on Oct 11, 2013 19:26:36 GMT -8
See, I'm not entirely certain on that. I think there is something to be said for the feminine characteristics of the character (or, in lieu of that, how realistically that character portrays their differential characteristics. The question- while perhaps generically worded, does lend to me introducing a more thought provoking question.
Shouldn't we be taking into consideration those aspects as well? If we're calling them the best female (beyond just standing out more than other females as a writer) should we not also factor the things that make them realistically female?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 19:32:05 GMT -8
For the record, we should probably assume that any conclusions drawn here should be paralleled in the male side of the house. Can't freaking stand a double standard.
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Darian Beviin
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Post by Darian Beviin on Oct 11, 2013 19:34:10 GMT -8
For the record, we should probably assume that any conclusions drawn here should be paralleled in the male side of the house. Can't freaking stand a double standard. I concur. |
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Post by Sithies Manager on Oct 13, 2013 7:18:00 GMT -8
If you believe that the character should be judged on her feminine characteristics, then how do you define that without devolving into a misogynistic stereotypical view of women?
The short answer is you can't. I cannot paint all women with the same paint brush any more than I could do it to all men.
These categories are best described as Lita mentioned: Best Character (Female) & Best Character (Male). It's equivalent to the Best Actor and Best Actress awards at the Oscars. They are given for the best portrayals of a character by a the actor/actress, not about the gender roles of the character.
We are not here to define what the award is given for, we are here to determine the criteria for judging a nominated character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 8:10:57 GMT -8
Er, we're doing both, on account of the fact that it's the same thing.
If that's how you feel on the matter, I would recommend changing the wording. I would also recommend making sure everyone is on the same page about that, unless you feel like flexing your management muscle.
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Lord Sinistra
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Post by Lord Sinistra on Oct 13, 2013 9:57:02 GMT -8
I think that's what Betty is trying to do with a thread and discussion like this.
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Adi
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Post by Adi on Oct 13, 2013 10:21:31 GMT -8
I agree with Betty. Let's change the name of the awards as she suggested, and get to figuring out criteria here. We have a little over two weeks to get this stuff squared away before we start having nominations come in. I, for one, don't want to be debating anything come that time....I want to be ready to get these awards prepped for judging, and get em to you guys. This is going to be difficult enough without worrying about nuances throwing off the ceremony.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2013 10:28:12 GMT -8
If you go with that, then all of the relevant discussions are occurring elsewhere. I'm confident that most of us are clear as to the definitions of male and female, and we're defining what constitutes an excellent character in the other threads. Our work here is done.
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Darian Beviin
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Post by Darian Beviin on Oct 13, 2013 12:48:04 GMT -8
If you go with that, then all of the relevant discussions are occurring elsewhere. I'm confident that most of us are clear as to the definitions of male and female, and we're defining what constitutes an excellent character in the other threads. Our work here is done. I'm going to throw my chips on Eralam's side here and cash out before I say something volatile. |
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